This is a transcript of the Spur of the Moment episode “Indigenous and Tribal water dialogue.” It is provided as a courtesy and may contain errors.

Hello and welcome to CSU Spur of the Moment, the podcast of Colorado State University’s Spur Campus in Denver, Colorado. On this podcast, we talk with experts in food, water, health and sustainability and learn about their current work and their career journeys. I’m Jocelyn Hittle, the Associate Vice President of the CSU Spurr campus. For this episode, we will be doing something a little different and we’ll be highlighting a panel discussion from the 2023 Water in the West Symposium hosted here at CSU Spurr. This annual symposium brings together speakers from different disciplines from all around the world and focuses on global and local water challenges. This past year’s theme was next generation water from AI to Gen Z, and the panel discussion you are about to hear focused on indigenous and tribal water challenges and solutions. It featured Mike Preston of the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe Water Resources Committee and Catherine Redhorse from the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs. The panel was moderated by Ernest House Jr of the Keystone Policy Center and also a member of the Ute Mountain U Tribe. You’ll first hear Ernest introductory remarks and then his introduction of the panel. Please enjoy this featured panel from CSU Spurs Water in the West Symposium. 

Thank you President Mote. And then good afternoon and thank you all for the opportunity to be here. I’d also want to extend appreciation and thanks to CSU and Joslyn and her team for the invitation. Mike de Roak. That means, hello, my friends in Ute, I guess as the longest continuous residents of the state of what we call the state of Colorado. I’d like to welcome you to my indigenous land here at what is now the Colorado State University System. Them, 

This is going to be a great opportunity to have a conversation around indigenous and tribal water dialogue. I mean, really, how can you have this conversation and not have tribes as a part of this, right? I think we have seen that taken place and I’m glad that CSU and JOSLYN have been a part of wanting to bring this great panel together. Before I introduced them, I did want to get a chance to talk about, I work for an organization, a nonprofit called the Keystone Policy Center. We’re headquartered in Keystone, Colorado. We have an office in Denver and DC and a lot of people ask me what I do, which tends to be a long-winded answer for a variety of hats that I wear. But what I often say is that really we work on facilitation from a variety of things, from ag to education to natural resources, and I’ve launched this center for Tribal and indigenous engagement. 

But because I wear many hats in Colorado, my first and foremost as an enrolled member of the Ute Mountain Ute tribe from to Colorado, I grew up learning about the importance of water to not only my tribal community who actually did not have running water until 1988. Both my great-grandfather, chief Jack House and my father Earnest House Sr. Advocated and have made many trips to Washington DC to solidify our tribal water rights. Both the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe and Southern Ute tribe were able to see that happen, that solidification happen in 1988 when then President Reagan signed the Ute Water Rights settlement. 

Our Ute tribes we’re fortunate to see the settlement, as we’ve heard earlier from assistant vice President for CSU that only 39 today, only 39 tribal nations have received or solidified their water rights. Now, take that into account. There’s 574 federally recognized tribes throughout the United States, including Alaska. So obviously we still have big challenges and hurdles throughout Indian country related to water. And also when I talk about access to water, it’s not just access and climate, but it’s paper water versus wet water. And if you don’t know what that means, I highly encourage you to Google that. So states, US governments, countries, tribes have not always been at the table. In fact, we’ve been on the menu for far too long. That’s why I am honored today to moderate and introduce you to this panel, to two people who are heavily engaged and advocating regularly on this issue. 

First and foremost, I’d like to welcome Catherine Redhorse, who is currently the executive director for the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs. Catherine is Lakota Navajo, and although she started her career working in a cancer research laboratory, she found passion advocating for children and families. This passion began when she started supporting students engaged in the Denver Public Schools Indian Education Program. She continued to work directly with families expanding from the education system to the juvenile justice system at the Denver Collaborative Partnership. She then moved to the child welfare system at the Denver Indian Family Resource Center, her previous role as the Indian Child Welfare Specialist with the division within the Division of Child Welfare at the Colorado Department of Human Services involved educating professionals on the Indian Child Welfare Act, iwa focusing not only on the legal aspects of iwa, but the, excuse me, history and importance of tribal sovereignty. 

In complying with iwa, Ms. Redhorse completed a fellowship with the Mule Early Childhood Leadership Program in partnership with the University of Colorado at Denver. Thank you for joining us, Catherine. Our other panelists here is Mike Preston. Mike is the president of the We Development Corporation of the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe and Water Advisor to Tribal Water Resources Committee for the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe. Mike Preston is currently serving as president of the Uch Development Corporation, which manages the Ute Mountain Tribal Enterprises and LLCs. He also serves as a water advisor to the Tribal Water Resources Committee, and Mike served as the general manager of the Dolores Water Conservation District from 2007 to 2019. He served as chairman of the Southwest Basin Roundtable from 2008 to 2020, and during 25 years with Fort Lewis College, Preston worked with the Mike, worked with the U Mount U Tribe on Colorado Indian Water Rights settlement, and the development of the tribe’s 7,700 acre farm and ranch enterprise that you heard from earlier today. 

Mike has also worked on collaborative forest restoration efforts involving the Tribe, county Timber Industry Conservation Groups, and US Colorado State Forest Service. He currently serves on the steering committee of the Rocky Mountain Restoration Initiative, which has coordinated multiple forest health treatment and cooperation with U Mountain U Tribe. An honor to, I’ve had the great honor to work with both of these individuals in my work over the years and even circling back with Mike. It’s great to work with Mike now because Mike served almost as when my father was tribal chairman as his right hand person to launch what is now the Ute Mountain Farm and Ranch Enterprise and to solidify our Ute water settlement. So please join me in welcoming these two individuals. 

So we’re just going to go ahead and jump right into questions and a dialogue. And in fact, we wanted to make sure that we had enough time for questions from the audience. So I hope, and I would encourage you to think about the questions and related to indigenous related issues, tribes, whatever work that you might have. And I’m going to go ahead and start with Catherine for the first question. Catherine, what do the next five years look like for the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs and or for the U Mountain U tribe with respect to water and ag, or not maybe just the tribe, but the tribes that you work with? 

Thank you, Ernest, and thank you so much for the invitation to be on the panel today. It’s always great to be invited and have these important conversations and bring in indigenous communities and tribal nations into the conversations as well. I always struggled with this question in interviews of where you see yourself in five years. And so with this one, I really feel like the state of Colorado is stirring thinking its practices in terms of state and tribal consultations, and it continues to hire tribal liaisons within each of the state departments. And really the role of CCIA as a liaison between the state of Colorado and tribal nations is to ensure that that connection and relationship continues and becomes stronger as it continues. And so a part of our team is to, again, create the environments for tribal nations and the state of Colorado to have these conversations. 

What does it look like in the partnership between Newt Mountain Mute, Southern New Indian Tribe and the state of Colorado to create and develop policies and rules in terms of what water rights look like? Most recently is that Colorado did place one of the Southern Ute Vice Chairman on one of their water committees on the state, and that ensures that the tribes have a direct voice on boards and commissions, which is super important. So really where we see our team’s roles is how are we creating the environment for direct voices from tribal nations and our community members to be involved on state boards and commissions, that we continue to increase tribal liaisons positions within state departments. Again, to provide this liaison role, not to necessarily advocate so much, but again, to bring in voices from other community. Really where we see our team is to continue education around what tribal sovereignty means, what does it look like in terms of the state partnering with tribal nations, but also serving American Indian, Alaskan native communities across the states. We’ll leave it. 

That’s great. I’m glad that you brought up Lole because Lorelei Klau is the vice chairwoman for the Southern Indian tribe and the first indigenous person to sit on the Colorado Water Conservation Board. So that was just recently done, and it’s great to see that that has happened. Thank you, Catherine. Mike, moving over to you. What are some of the differences in how water management is approached in an indigenous or tribal context as compared to the US and state governments? And before you answer that, I do want to make sure and let you know that in creating this conversation today, we both Jocelyn and I have talked with representatives from both Southern Ute and Ute Mountain. And so Vice Chairwoman Cloud could not be here as a chairman Manuel Hart for Ute Mountain, but Chairman Hart had specifically asked that Mike represent the Ute Mountain tribe. So we’re going to hold him to everything that he says today. No pressure, Mike. 

Thank you, Ernest. Yeah, it’s really a pleasure and an honor to be part of this. It’s been, I’m very impressed by what’s happened today to begin with in terms of the differences for a tribe, for indigenous people, water is life and should be managed for the benefit of all life and not just for humans. This is very much Taisha the point she was making earlier today. In fact, when we have water meetings in the community of Toyak, they usually begin with a prayer, and that includes praying for all creatures, all plants, all life that are dependent on water. 

So indigenous people, they’ve been in the area using water for time immemorial. And if you think about the prior appropriation system, which is the way that state water law goes, it was put in the Constitution in I think 1878 or whenever the Colorado constitution was adopted, the principles first in time, first in, and you probably heard that, and then use it or lose it. So whoever files on the water puts the water to use, first they have a priority, and then everybody gets lined up behind them. Thankfully, there was a decision called the Winner’s Doctrine by the Supreme Court in 1908, which stated that tribes are entitled to adequate water to fulfill the purposes of their reservation and the U Mountain U Tribe at one time, early treaties granted most of Western Colorado. In the end, a strip of land along the southern border of Colorado and for U Mountain Ute down into New Mexico. 

So that decision meant that instead of, even though the tribe hadn’t exercised their rights, I mean the U Mountain Ute rights go back to Treaty of 1868, so that’s the priority on their water rights. So even though they hadn’t put it to use, which would be a problem under state water law, the Winter’s doctrine allows tribes to think forward. In other words, what are you trying to accomplish with the reservation, the lands that have been reserved for the tribes, and how are you going to put that water to use? And so that opportunity, there’s many water rights ahead to be solved, but this is kind of one of the early ones as far as the actual settlement of the water rights, earnest mentioned that earlier, two important things that resulted for the Ute Mountain Ute tribe. They had never had drinkable water. And so the settlement brought treated water, treated drinking water to toyak for the people in the community and opened the door for the economic development that has occurred since that time. 

The other thing that was gained out of the settlement, and you heard from Simon Martinez this morning was the 7,600 acre tribal farm. And just to reinforce some points, as Ernest mentioned, his father, earnest House Sr, was really the visionary leader that led the tribal council and built a solid consensus with the council to move forward towards a negotiated settlement. And the idea was to get wet water. And the way that that happened, you saw it manifest in Simon’s presentation earlier today. They got to participate in the Dolores project and basically kind of build the farm. So that, and the other thing was my early, I got into water as part of the tribe’s negotiating team when Ernest’s father was chairman. And then once we had the settlement, I had the privilege of being project development coordinator when we were first trying to organize the business model and physically get the farm set up. And again, Simon was one of the first people that we hired. And really, as far as the installation of the 110 Center pivots, he did most of that work. So that’s kind of my sense is that I guess the take home point, tribes do have the opportunity to continue to try and perfect their water rights, but you got to have a place to use it, and you got to have the infrastructure, and that’s what the settlement in the Dolores Project did for the tribe. 

Thank you, Mike. Catherine, I’ll go to you and Mike, feel free to jump in. Catherine as executive director for the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs, what do you see? I mean, you mentioned Colorado doing some great work with highlighting indigenous voices on state boards and commissions, but what else do you see around tribal engagement and decision making? What’s improved? What still needs work in general or even in water related? What are some of the things that you’re seeing? 

I think as a state moves forward, I do think practices are strengthening between both of the Ute tribes in terms of its relationship. When we have our quarterly meetings or when we are in other meetings between state departments and the two tribal leadership with their chairman and their council, they often share that they are appreciative of the relationship that they have with the state of Colorado. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that the state and the two Ute tribes always agree on items or next steps and what they may look like. But what that means is that they have the ability to come together and have the conversation of what could it look like and that they do feel that they’re heard in terms of what is going well, the state has increased its positions in which they directly work with tribal nations. So in the span, I’ve been in this position about three years now, it’s almost doubled the amount of tribal liaison positions that have been in the state. 

The Department of Natural Resources just hired their own tribal, and she started in June or July somewhere this past summer. So she’s fairly new and you’ll see more state departments hire their own tribal liaisons. Again, there’s so much work that’s to be done in what does it look like to partner with not only the two Ute tribes, but having these conversations with tribal nations in general, and again, including the A I A and communities that live within the states as the state does increase those positions. I think where our office sits is how are we working together to ensure that we’re instilling consistent practices in terms of what does that relationship look like between the state and tribal nations and our community members? I hope that that trend continues, that more state departments and even offices or divisions within those state departments look to hire similar positions because again, there’s so much work in terms of when we’re talking about state and tribal relationships, we’re really looking at that government to government model. And with that, that doesn’t, it looks different than when we’re partnering with other agencies or entities or even local county governments. It means that we are talking about MOUs and other government to government agreements, which takes a little bit more time for them to develop and to bring in legal teams and ensure that all of these entities are on the same page of what that may look like. 

I do think that Colorado is unique also in its demographics, and that we do have two federally recognized tribes that have jurisdiction within the state, and we need to have strong partnerships with those tribal nations. But what does the state’s relationship look like with other tribal nations that do have interest with the states? And again, the majority of our community members live along the front range, so how are we including their voices and their organizations and their nonprofits into policy and legislation while respecting the sovereignty of the Ute Mountain Ute tribe and the Southern Indian tribe as they do have jurisdiction within the states? And I think that’s always should be our focus when we’re looking at how we’re strengthening practices. 

Thank you, Mike. We heard from Simon Martinez earlier today on the farm and ranch, what folks may not know, and I can’t remember in Simon’s presentation that, okay, it’s great, the water right settlement finalized in 88, all these leaders advocated. Were fortunate it’s there, but then two years hits, two years ago hits, and we go into the worst drought that we’ve seen, and when normally we would have a 100% water allocation, it got dropped to 10%. That was an inch and a half per acre, I believe, for our farm ranch. And the worry now is the ongoing drought. So my question to you is, how is the Ute Mountain Tribe dealing with drought and climate change impacts to water rights and access? 

Excellent question, Ernest, and that we’re really sort of the reality that the situation that Ernest was describing in 2021, there were 6,000 acres Ed. Of the 7,600 acres of the a hundred Tencent pivots, eight to 10 of them were operational. So it was a really kind of trying period, especially having to deal with all the fallowed land. But under Simon’s leadership, farm and Ranch is really looking forward and acknowledging that there are going to be fluctuations in water supply and taking steps to be as viable and as resilient under those circumstances as possible. It just so happens that this need became very apparent at the same time that infrastructure money is available through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act and the Deficit Reduction Act. So there is funding out there. So one of the things we’re working on really hard right now is to make the farm as water efficient as possible. 

Just like Simon was saying earlier, it is gravity fed, highly efficient system, but a lot of the infrastructure has been in there for 20 to 30 years. And so we’re going through a process of upgrading all the irrigation equipment to make it as efficient as possible, the use of telemetry to expand the opportunity to remotely manage this sprawling 7,600 acre farm. And then innovations like the micro hydro unit aimed at generating power. We’re trying to build a small reservoir kind of near the end of the canal and anticipating floating solar kind of on that installation. So doing everything possible from an infrastructure standpoint to make the farm as efficient and as viable as possible. The other thing is crop adaptations. The farm and ranch is experimenting with cover crops as the presentation earlier. Farm and ranch planted a lot of wheat because I mean, alfalfa is an excellent high quality alfalfa, but it’s a five-year investment. 

And so to deal with the limited water supply, the wheat production has been increased to try and create a lot of flexibility so you can make year to year decisions about what to plan. Those are combination of infrastructure investments and cropping patterns are the key to this. One thing I wanted to add to the, as far as the relationship with Colorado, we are blessed. I mean, the Yuk Mountain Ute tribe is blessed to have the relations that we do. I want to give a shout out to Becky Mitchell. She was executive director of Colorado Water Conservation Board until just recently. She’s our representative on the upper Colorado River Commission. And I remember at one of the meetings and crew of meetings in Las Vegas, the upper basin states include Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, and New Mexico. And basically Becky was saying, here’s what we’re doing with our tribes. 

And looked at the other commissioners that said, what are you doing with your tribes? And we have seen notable much more engagement from the other states since then. And that’s important because the Ute Mountain Ute Reservation also goes down into New Mexico, into Utah. So we’re, even though we settled the claims in Colorado back in the 1980s, we’ve still got two water rights settlements to negotiate within the upper basin. So that leadership from Colorado is really important. The other thing is, under the drought circumstances that we’re dealing with the exchange of water between the upper and lower basin, there’s a whole lot of issues that I don’t have time to go into about how we manage the Colorado River Basin, but it’s really important the tribe has been invited, engaged in all of this. And so the tribe is really working to be involved and to get aligned with other partners to make sure that the upper basin is viable going forward. There are rule changes ahead in terms of how Lake Powell and Lake Meter are going to be managed. And believe it or not, it has a big impact potentially on the upper basin tribe. So that’s the other area that is paramount, is for the tribes to be part of these larger Colorado River Basin negotiations to partner up with people that they’re aligned with, but still be able to protect their rights going forward. 

Thank you. So my last question is really next gen water. This conversation, water in the West is all about the next generation, and we have had young people from local education institutions join us today. Clearly. We’ve talked about the challenges, you’ve outlined the differences, the challenges, and the hurdles in Indian country. What are you seeing as different needs we as existing workers, leaders need to meet in order to attract and retain the younger generation of indigenous youth? What are some of those skills that young people will need to have in order to meet some of these challenges that you’ve articulated either at Ute Mountain, a community that’s eight hours away from where we’re sitting right now, or your tribes that you’re a part of, Catherine, what do we need? 

So part of the reason that I or motivated me to be in this position where I am now is really education. And I think that’s really the basis of your question is how are we supporting our native students? And that means from early education through K through 12 and to our higher ed institutions, and how are we breaking down those silos? How are we modeling and just creating this accessibility to see themselves in these positions? And that really does look for exposure to higher ed institution. And that doesn’t start in high school. It starts really in early education. It starts with parents bringing in their children and having the conversation of what does their future look like? There are so many careers and there’s so many new careers that are being created even in aerospace and in water and land management, but how are we exposing children to this to open up their minds and then see themselves in those positions? 

And so I’m really grateful that Patrice is in the audience here. CSU just hired their new assistant Vice President of Indigenous and Native Affairs. It’s a new title, and I’m excited. I’m hoping to see more higher ed institutions hire similar positions because not only do they support native students, but they were looking at recruiting from children from elementary schools and creating those relationships with Indian ed programs to middle schools, to high schools students. How are they supporting their native students that attend their institutions, but then how are they having the conversation of what tribal sovereignty looks like and what the importance and strength behind tribal nations? That’s not only in our history, but they’re very present today. And if you have that knowledge and understanding, you can have careers in politics or governments or be a tribal liaison for your tribe and advocate as you did right with Mountain Mute when you’re working for the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs. And that can span across from child welfare to land management to goodness, any topic area. So I think that’s really one of my motivations is how are we creating this pathway from early ed to higher ed institutions from for our native students. 

Thank you, Mike. 

Yeah, so one of the things that we’re doing, this is the development corporation that overseas tribal businesses is one of the, and by the way, Ernest and I both serve on that board. We’re president and vice president of that board. And so our managers all are all committed not only to employing tribal people because in the enterprises that we oversee, about 75% of the employees are either tribal members or Native American members of other tribes. But we also want to move those people up into management and leadership programs. And Simon Martinez has one of the best succession programs I’ve seen. We’ve got a young man by the name of Michael Vicente, he was the irrigation manager for a number of years. He’s now moved up to operations manager and he’s going to be the next general manager attended CSU, by the way. So that’s one thing that we’re really trying to do is focus on moving not only on employing tribal people, but putting ’em in leadership roles in these institutions and making sure that they’re well prepared to succeed. 

The other thing that we’re just beginning to do is we really want to do more to recruit interns and to identify graduates, higher ed graduates that would fit in to some of the opportunities that the U Mountain tribe can provide from a standpoint of employment. And we’re starting, starting with Fort Lewis College. I worked for Fort Lewis College for 25 years. They’ve got a very large Native American population. So that’s our initial focus. But this conference has opened my eyes. I mean, we’ve already got discussions going about tapping into the phenomenal resources that here at Spur CSU has to offer and try to connect on that level as well. I guess a couple of other things that are going on in our area, we have what’s called a forest to faucets teacher training program curriculum, and when I was manager of the Doris Water Conservancy District, we always participated in this. 

So this is you bring in a group of teachers, usually kind of a school district or two at a time, and then give them a lot of direct exposure, put ’em through a training experience and provide ’em with a curriculum so that they can really work with their students as far as water education. And then the key we’ve got, there’s a community charter school in Toyak. They’re going to actually cover the whole spectrum. It’s basically a charter school that also places emphasizes emphasis on language and culture. And so right now they’re up through, I believe, third grade, fourth grade, something like that. But that’s the other opportunity I see is really to take water education curriculum and put it right into that school because those young people have firsthand exposure to what water does I, and also they, they’re sort of the future. So that’s the other thing we want to do is bring the students in the charter school along as far as areas, I mean the list of areas that are relevant, water management, hydrology is one watershed and forest Management, secretary Vilsack talked about that this morning. 

As a water manager, we used to just figure out how much water was in our reservoirs and how we’re going to distribute it. Now we realize the reservoir is really up in the snow pack and we’ve got to take care of the forest irrigation and farm management, water engineering and construction management to deal with all this infrastructure legal, there’s not only people that know water law, but there’s a lot of negotiations and a lot of contracts involved in all this business management. Really looking for all of the success of all these enterprises really hinges on setting up a effective business structure. And so students that have that, any kind of business management skills are important. Communications was mentioned earlier. And then finally the engaging local state and federal political and governmental processes. I mean, that’s what the tribe is into right now with Colorado River Basin, with trying to really protect the viability of their farm is building a lot of partnerships and relationships. So that’s the other extremely important thing that we would like to see that skillset. I think that our young people are going to need to step up to the challenges of the future. 

Well, thank you Mike. Thank you Catherine. Just with the little bit of time left, is there anything else you’d like to add before we open it up to questions that you haven’t already said yet? I 

Think we’re ready to open it up. 

Alright, well thank you very much. Let’s go ahead if there’s any questions, and I gave you back some time, so there better be some questions. Don’t be shy. Yes, sir. Quick question. Oh, there’s a mic coming right here. 

And they did ask that we speak into the mics. I guess they’re having a hard time hearing us online. 

Okay. Does that work? A quick question. There were a number of land settlements over the last several decades. I just wanted to clarify the point within those settlements with the federal government, were there no water rights included in the compensation of the land under those settlement agreements? Were water rights excluded from those? 

I can speak for you, mountain Ute Tribe. So what the land, for example, MEA Verde National Park used to be part of the Ute Mountain Reservation and it eventually became Park Service Land. That’s just one example. So there were a bunch of land settlements, lands exchanges, and what the Ute Mountain tribe did, they received monetary payments for those lands. And what they did is they invested those lands and actually in fee land. So they own what’s called Pinecrest Ranch up in Gunnison, beautiful, beautiful piece of beautiful, one of the larger ranches in Colorado and then own, they have five ranches in La Plata and Montezuma County. So what they did is they took their land settlement money and invested it in buying ranches and all those ranches have senior water rights associated with them. Excellent question. 

Also to that point, and as you’re going to the next one, there are tribes that also own land in Colorado. It may not be defined as tribal trust land or fee land, but the Navajo Nation purchased a large ranch and the Sangre Cristos Southern Colorado a handful of years ago that they actively work on. There’s been conversations with the Cheyenne Arapaho tribes, clearly if you’re here from Colorado, recent place, names and name changes. So there’s an active interest in tribes that are not in Colorado, but have always called Colorado home to Catherine’s point that are really interested in returning back to Colorado, a place that they were forcibly removed from over the last 150 years to make way for front range communities and communities throughout the state. 

Hi, my name is Quiel. I’m a descendant from the Aztecs in Mexico, and I want to know if you have any global partnerships that you’re seeking for water rights. For example, I dunno if you remember, Mexico was built in the lake. We have a lot of understanding of water management. And so are you seeking any partnerships globally? Because I’ve been also in Canada and there is an amazing group of Native Americans there here in the US and Mexico. So any partnerships that you are seeking for water? 

I mean, the one thing that comes to mind is the Colorado River. I mean, at one point the Colorado River went into Mexico, and that’s been a challenge. I mean, the Colorado River Compact allocates 500,000 acre feet a year to Mexico, and that water doesn’t always make it. And so I think that’s the effort that lies ahead is how to really make good on those commitments. It’s a complicated picture. I mean, for example, drying up the Salton Sea, which is down in that area is creating all kinds of air. I mean, you can’t fool Mother Nature is something that somebody told me a long time ago, and it’s true. So there are a lot of adjustments to be made, but we are mindful of the obligation to Mexico and if we’re ever really going to settle things out on the, and again, we all suffer during the drought periods. There was a recent effort where they actually did get water to its point of delivery, the Colorado River in one instance. But that’s something that’s a challenge that lies in the future. And in my mind, we haven’t completely resolved issues on the Colorado River until we take care of Mexico’s piece of that. 

I am more familiar with water use with the Pueblo nations just south of the Ute tribe. 

Oh, thank you. Sorry. Thank you. The very top 

And how that fell in there were complications, but it fell in sync with practices that arrived with the Spanish around EIAs and the common use of flood irrigation to cultivate fields. But I’m not familiar with the traditional ways that Ute Tribes used water or their relationship with working with water. And I’m curious if you could just go into that history a little bit. 

Well, I think from the Ute Mount or from the Utes perspective in history, we’re a nomadic tribe. People have often, and authors have always often referred to the Utes as the people of the Shining Mountains. So we were one of the first tribes to acquire the horse from the Spanish. We used that for trail systems all across the state. So we had several bands across the state, bands that would be smaller groups of Utes that were predominantly moving with the seasons, moving in high country in the summertime, lower elevation in the wintertime. But we still have hunting blind standing in Rocky Mountain National Park. The last Ute ceremony at Garden of the Gods was in 1908 until we were forcibly removed from that location. All these locations were clear waterways and water systems and had vibrant watersheds that supported these valleys and areas. So it was very apparent from the Roaring Fork Valley to the Yampa to Vail Valley, wherever it was, that Utes had a presence there, at least from the historical perspective that we were always going back to those locations. 

I mean here in just downtown Denver at the Confluence behind the REI building in downtown Denver, that was a sought after location because of the access, easily access for water and waterways. So it wasn’t just used by the youths, but by other tribes that have always called Colorado home. The systems that, and even the tribes that work with in southern Colorado with the Asakia system that you may find in San Luis or those areas even in New Mexico, have included indigenous history. I would also include that I would categorize that community as indigenous. That’s how I would define that. But I think that the systems that are created now, obviously we’re looking at trying to access water and creating reservoir systems to capture that water. Obviously a very different system that we have now versus historically when we could just access that and go into certain areas. 

I will say that the Ute Mountain Tribe, one of the ongoing conversations right now for water access is Lake Colorado’s, one of Colorado’s newest reservoirs right outside of Durango, Colorado. 25% goes to Ute Mountain, 25% goes to the Southern Ute tribe, 15% goes to the Navajo nation, and the rest goes to farmers and ranchers in City of Durango. Well, during a lot of the negotiation, the delivery system from that reservoir to my reservation at Ute Mountain was removed from the legislation because of the price tag. I don’t know if I’ll ever see that water in my lifetime reach my community, though. We have 25% and we hit two years ago where we hit the massive drought where we’re 10% water and we can’t get access to it. To me, our chairman has said, that’s the most expensive water in the country, yet we can’t get to it. And so I think that the conversation now from both historical standpoint for your question back to where we’re moving into the future, is going to require a lot of folks coming together and figuring this out. Because even when you have access to water and you can’t receive it, versus when you had it and there was abundance of it and you never thought about it going away because of climate change, all those variables are completely on the table. 

Yeah, I think the other, I mean, my experience, when we started to do planning to develop the tribal farm, the mountain tribe, they were very comfortable with livestock. I mean, as Ernest said, they were originally nomadic, but so cattle was very familiar and people told us in the early days, Hey, we’re not farmers. Well, you saw the result. I mean, this morning from Simon’s presentation, they’ve done very well at doing actually commercial farming. And I think one of the important aspects of that, even with the fluctuating water supply, is food security long term. There’s an opportunity you could feed the tribe kind of off of that farm if that were necessary. So farming in that sense is sort of brand new. The other thing that from a more traditional cultural standpoint, one of the things that I’m excited about is that water wise, there’re a sleeping eat mountain is always, I mean, people used to go up to the springs and get water. 

A lot of the ceremonial activity happens up there, family picnics. There are two, three reservoirs. Well, it had taken a real hit. All the drought has dried up sleeping mountain or was sort of heading in that direction, had a good water year last year, the water. And so some of these lakes began to fill back up. Some of the springs began to run. But I think that’s the other thing that the tribe is intending to do is really take a proactive effort to do whatever they can to restore the springs and lakes and all the water resources up on Sleeping U Mountain. 

I think that’s it. Thank you for your attention. Thank you for being able to give these folks a voice today, oa. 

The CSU Spur of the Moment Podcast is produced by Kevin Samuelson, and our theme music is by kea. Please visit the show notes for links mentioned in this episode. We hope you’ll join us in two weeks for the next episode. Until then, be well.